Palm: end of the road?

[tamaranth]

My Palm T5 is slowly dying (power button temperamental, touch-screen occasionally unresponsive) and I'm thinking of getting a new one. I use it every day, mostly for reading and sudoku, and having something PDA-sized is a key feature, as is the Palm operating system.

A quick product search indicates that the top-of-the-range Palm is still the TX, released in 2005. I did have a TX, loved it and lost it -- the T5 was a replacement when cashflow was problematic. I don't have any problem with acquiring another. But is this really the end of the line for PDAs that aren't also phones?

Comments

[aca.livejournal.com]

It does rather look that way, doesn't it. Would a combined device be out of the question?

[tamaranth.livejournal.com]

not much point having a smartphone if I'm paying extra for a second mobile! and as far as I can see there are no smartphones that work with BTFusion. Frankly, I also have concerns about all-in-one devices: risk of loss / theft / battery failure rather higher. I already use my old Handspring Visor as an e-book reader in the bath / on the beach / anywhere out of doors, rather than risk the T5: I'd probably end up with a two-tiered approach to phone and MP3 as well, and that's just too much like hard work.

[marypcb.livejournal.com]

actually, there are several Windows Mobile handsets that work with BT Fusion; the new Benq E72 and the HTC Excalibur that I use, and at least a couple of others. I could see you with a BlackBerry Pearl as well; I expect that to be approved for Fusion soon. I hear your concerns about a single point of failure and extra costs, but going the old Palm route means you're going to be using second hand devices with no support at some point and that may not work out cheaper in the long run. smartphones are covered by your contents insurance, same as anything else.

is it a religious thing about not using a smartphone as a phone? on many tariffs you can trade up to a smartphone cheap or free after a year, so you wouldn't have to manage two phones unless you wanted to. and I find having my address book and my phone on the same device the biggest timesaver possible ;-)

[tamaranth.livejournal.com]

Are you sure the Benq and the Excalibur work with BT Fusion? They're not listed on BT's site: presumably they have the VoIP thing but will BT recognise them? (I had weeks of issues with a badly-configured phone that was on their list, so wary of switching to something that isn't listed.)

Switching to Windows Mobile would mean:
a) replacing all the Palm software I have acquired over the last 7 years
b) scrapping thousands of e-books
c) possibly -- aaaaargh! -- paying for software: all the Palm stuff I use (hmm, except one game I've finally stopped playing) is freeware / shareware.

Support-wise, I have to say I have never needed product support on my PDAs. (Phone, yes: see above).

And as for insurance -- yes, fine, but it's not the cost of replacing an item that perturbs me, it's the inconvenience of not having that item for days (or weeks, if insurance co is being arsy: last time I was mugged it took them a month to replace my PDA, and they refused to cover cost if I went out and bought one!) and the loss of data / messages since last sync. If I were still in Lewisham I'd probably also consider the added risk factor of visibly carrying shiny tech! Luckily the mugging rate round here is low.

Not a religious thing about not using smartphone as phone: simply, as I said, I wasn't aware of smartphones on BTFusion (which I like, as well as being contracted to stick with 'til December). Presumably one can turn off phone-function whilst using PDA-functions? Otherwise I'd end up with something else that I couldn't or didn't want to use in places where I'd use a PDA.

Incidentally, by 'address book' do you mean names+phone or names+location or names+email? I only ever really need to look up location, and that pretty seldom: gmail's contact list and my phone's contact list take care of the rest.

[marypcb.livejournal.com]

The Benq is brand new but they pitched it to me in the press release as BT Fusion aware - it may take BT a little while to update their appalling Web site. the HTC (officially the 620 and also the S710) is certified for the Broadband Anywhere service which is Fusion underneath the label - as listed here http://bt.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/bt.cfg/php/enduser/cci/bt_catpage.php?p_sid=&cat_lvl1=760&cat_lvl2=862&cat_lvl3=1163&p_cv=3.1163&p_cats=760,862,1163 although I can't get the page it links to to load!

by address book I mean name+location+email+number for calling+number for texting and everything. your gmail and phone contact list would be the same as your PDA contact list...

I'm not wanting to look as if I'm suggesting that you switch from Palm to Windows Mobile on its merits - it's just that I don't know of any plans to add Palm support to Fusion.

and yes, you can always turn off the phone connection and take out the SIM on a smartphone.

[tamaranth.livejournal.com]

Aha, I couldn't find the name for what BTFusion was under the branding! (BT Fusion site definitely dumbed down beyond reason.)

I'm not wanting to look as if I'm suggesting that you switch from Palm to Windows Mobile on its merits - it's just that I don't know of any plans to add Palm support to Fusion.

I don't really want Palm support on Fusion: I want Palm separate! Motivation of original post was merely upgrade of PDA. My reasons for resisting combined devices stand :)

I wonder if there is a technological advance I'm waiting for -- e.g. portable, universal 'recharge' source would mean no more worrying about charging when I'm away from power sockets. For that matter surgically implanted screen would reduce probability of loss / theft! Hmm, maybe I'll stick with Handspring / Tesco Chunky MP3 / current phone ...

[marypcb.livejournal.com]

actually, USB is getting there - it's easier in the US where power sockets are common in airports and coffee shops and even built into some cars. USB power adapters are teeny (and you can get dual USB headed cables for charging two devices at once). A car adapter for USB charging from the ciggie socket is small and cheap. One day I may get around to building a USB topper-upper using replacable/rechargable batteries and the tin I have that's shaped like a mobile phone. And there are solar power USB chargers that aren't much larger than a PDA.

surgically implanted screen: have you read Karen Traviss? ;-)

[tamaranth.livejournal.com]

We have different definitions of 'away from power sockets'! I was thinking more: beach, train (standard class), countryside, sailing. As batteries become retro-tech I am learning to appreciate them more -- though I do wish rechargable batteries had as much oomph as Duracell ultra!

Early cyberpunk novels indicate to me that I can self-power (a la potato clock) and have the display routed directly to my optic nerve. And no doubt have wi-fi coming out of my ears. Why o why, etc.

[bohemiancoast.livejournal.com]

What rechargables are you using? Because I find that Uniross 2500s have very good oomph compared to alkalines for many purposes (not all). Plus I just carry extras. I have just bought a pile of allegedly not-so-dischargy rechargables, because battery life is less important to me than having the wretched things be available when I need to use them rather than when I thought to charge them. Plus a much better charger. (We have a reasonable 4 battery charger, but a 4 battery charger is simply not enough in a house with 4 Wii remotes, a Wii Fit board, a small robot, an electronic melodeon, numerous wireless keyboards and mice, a music recorder and so on..., so I bought a second one from IKEA but it's crap, so off to eBay with it and I've got a seriously 'ultrasmart' charger instead). The non-discharging rechargables are 2100 not 2500, but I remember when we got 2100 batteries and thought ourselves *lucky*.

[sbisson.livejournal.com]

Sadly, yes (or at least for consumer devices).

There are still some standard PDAs, but they're targeted at businesses and tend to be Windows Mobile devices from folk like HP. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the iPod Touch next week when the new software for that comes out.

One option is the new generation of what folk are calling Mobile Internet Devices. They look like largish PDAs and tend to run Linux...

[tamaranth.livejournal.com]

Mobile Internet Devices probably too large and too un-Palm for my needs!

See comment above re combined devices. I suspect I'll be sticking to Palm Tungsten series for PDA until it becomes impossible to source 'em. Hell, I'd go back to the Handspring Visor for much of what I need in a PDA ...

[marypcb.livejournal.com]

non-phone Palm is dead - or at least fossilised - for many reasons including the company's own incompetence and the fact that mobile operators subsidise the cost of PDA phones. Windows Mobile lives as the iPAQ but it's for business and prices reflect that. Standalone PDAs have been replaced by an overlap of features in MP3 players, personal navigation devices and smartphones and high-end featurephones.

[tamaranth.livejournal.com]

Bah to combined devices. See comment to aca! I suspect I'll end up being fairly retro about portable tech. At least it's cheaper!

[hawkida.livejournal.com]

Thing is I loved my PalmOS phones! I've moved onto Windows because they stopped making them. But it made sense to me to be able to dial up the web from a pda without needing to plug it into anything else.

I'd suggest you have a look at Ebay and pick up a Treo 650 - they go pretty cheap these days and it'll give you a chance to have a play and see how you get on with one and sell it back on if it's not for you. Out of the box it won't do graffiti but you can add that on, and I like the keyboard option. The treo 600 was nice too but is lower resolution and loses data if the battery dies.

[tamaranth.livejournal.com]

I can dial up the web from my non-smart phone ... for portable web access, I'd rather have that or something like an Eee (which'd be too big and too featured to replace my PDA, if you see what I mean). Still not keen on combined devices -- see comment to aca above -- and suspect I'll end up with seperate, outmoded devices rather than something shiny, new and multifunctional.

[bohemiancoast.livejournal.com]

Yes, it really is the end of the line. The iPod Touch may substitute for some extent once the app store is open, but it's unlikely that you'll see the sort of polished integration of key apps that you used to get with Palm (or, sniff, Psion).
A major problem is that the business market for non-phone organisers got completely blown apart by the BlackBerry; if you're at all senior then push email and real time calendar are utterly desirable and a PDA cannot compete.

You're not the only enthusiast to mourn. I'm selling a Sony Clie TH55 on eBay at the moment, a PDA that was already allegedly obsolete the day I bought it (I bought a display model, amazingly reduced, as an end of line); there are 27 watchers and brisk bidding. It's a fine, fine, PDA; bright 320x480 screen, WiFi, Bluetooth, Palm OS, camera, MP3, and super for games. Sony killed the entire line because they thought they were cannibalising their mobile phone sales.

Someone else has mentioned the 'mobile internet devices' -- I have a Nokia 770 but find it's not the right form factor for me; the screen is amazingly beautiful but it's too large for daily use.

What does appear to be the right form factor is to carry a work BlackBerry, an iPhone (with a slight irritation about its lack of phone form factor), and, often, a Nintendo DS. Yes, I do curse the combination of these, and even with all three, I don't have an adequate book reader, which of course I used to have on the TH55.

[tamaranth.livejournal.com]

My versions of adequate book reader are the Palm T5 (for indoor use and / or where I have access to a power socket for recharging) and an antique, 8MB Handspring Visor for everywhere else, including the bath! Visor's monochrome LCD screen is actually much better for reading in sunshine, and it takes -- get this -- real batteries, so spare power can be carried / acquired easily.

I hear you re multi-device solution: suspect this'll be me. (I already have multiple MP3 players -- again, for various combinations of rechargeable / battery, capacity, replacement cost, functionality.)

But BOOOOO to Palm!